Poor John Oxendine. He cant even come up with an original idea of his own to trash Roy Barnes . The rat commercials were funny 4 years ago, but that was then and this is now. Having Oxendine as our Governor would be far worse than when Barnes was in office, and that was pretty bad. At least Barnes was willing to go down with his sinking ship, rather than give up his beliefs and goals, as misguided as they sometimes were. Im not sure Oxendine has ever had an idea he wasnt paid to have. I think Georgias citizens know a rat when they see one, and I think right now their seeing one named John Oxendine. His recently having to give back over 100 thousand dollars of questional campaign contributions from Georgias insurance companies is a good example of why the citizens of Georgia cannot trust Oxendine to do whats right for our state.When Oxendine loses the election, mabe he and his dad should take time to think about why they were both recently either thrown or voted out of office. At least John got his dishonesty honestly. The apple truly doesnt fall far from the tree. Our state will be a better place when both are no longer freeloading off the citizens of our great state.

Ox is right on the flag - it was Barnes doing, Barnes ugliest Rag in the known universe, Barnes strong arm tactics and threats, Barnes behind closed doors secret flag changers meeting - with Austin Scott no less, and Barnes lies about changing the flag when originally running for office.

Now you have to deal with Barnes aftermath of the destruction of the Ga Democrat Party for the next 27 years.

Barnes told of Mercedes Benz plants that never were in the equation, Barnes bought off Speaker Murphy and called in favors from folks like Nathan Dean and rammed his King Rat Legacy Flag (lasting only 110 weeks or so) on the unwilling majority of the populace - only to get 212,200 voters to stand up for it in 2004.

212,200 voters was all the Barnes Flag atrocity was meant to appease, and I doubt the majority of those same 212,200 poeple will vote for the King this time around.

Flaggots are the scum of Georgia politics.

The state flag was a symbol of a shameful time in our state's history and I'm glad someone took the initiative to change it.

Ends justify the means?

So, Yes or No. Was the lies, the secrecy, the threats, the underhandedness, the dictatorial methods, the deceptions - just to get 212,200 voters (out of almost 4 million registered) on your side.

Plus the fractured and destroyed democrats.

Plus the angry (still) citizenry.

Do the ends justify the means in your eyes?

So, Yes or No. Was the lies, the secrecy, the threats, the underhandedness, the dictatorial methods, the deceptions - just to get 212,200 voters (out of almost 4 million registered) on your side.

First off, there was no "dictatorial methods." The flag was repealed by the legislature, of course, it was Barnes initiative.

Plus the fractured and destroyed democrats.

Georgia had been trending Republican for sometime. The flag had nothing to do with any political shift.

Plus the angry (still) citizenry.

Boot Perdue!!!

Yeah, you guys are a political force.

Do the ends justify the means in your eyes?

Considering the change was made through the constitutional process, yeah, the ends completely justified the means.

Jason

You musta been out of the loop.

Pro-flag spouses Waffle House franchises were threatened. Funds for previously approved items were stripped away. Legislative districts were redrawn to exclude those who voted against change. Committee appts were threatened.

Recall the Mercedes Benz Plant issue?

Come on Jason. There is lots more. Don't pretend you are oblivious to anything other than a simple 'it was done by peaceful benign legislative methods' BS

Ever wonder why Speaker Murphy's kid was appointed the judge of a specially created judicial curcuit.

If there is any justice to be found in the flag change, it was that Democrats are ruined in Ga, that King Rat was dropped as the 2004 Demo VP choice, and it did show that trying to appease 212,200 people instead of 4,000,000 doesn't pay huge dividends - except maybe get you a nifty Kennedy Lantern that don't work in the dark.

Everything is a conspiracy theory with you people.

I'll tell you this now, I'd pick any Democrat running over John Oxendine.

Well there you have it then.

Everything lumped into a 'conspiracy' and pushed to the side.

I can assume then you are one of the 212,200...

I voted for Garrett Michael Hayes, the Libertarian, in 2002. I didn't vote on the flag issue because I was too concerned about, you know, the real issues.

Oxendine should have never went this route. He didn't help with the flag issue then so he should leave it alone now. Old wounds never should be opened because they begin to fester. The flag we have today is just fine because my Great Great Grandfathers served under it. Our lives are filled with so much discord today that we shouldn't be worried about a flag.

I agree with you Doc, he should have never used that tactic. It shows a complete lack of creativity on his part. He did nothing to help save our grand and glories state flag when it was being lied about all over the State, so he needs not to try to get the vote of those that know the true history of the flag. It was a shame that the flag was put up, as a living memorial to those that lost their lives fighting for what they believed in was lost to greed and intimidation. However the State Flag we have now is very good, it says more than many people know. Today’s State Flag is nothing more than the 1st National Flag of the Confederate Government not the Army as with the Battle Flag. It has a more meaningful Statement when a State adopts a Countries Governmental Flag that stood for independence and freedom. We all should be proud of our Confederate history, and stand up when someone degrades it. And when a politician tries to use it to get votes than we need to stand up and say no to that politician because if he will use our history to get a vote what will he do once in office to get what he wants.

Dark Knight

"First off, there was no "dictatorial methods." The flag was repealed by the legislature, of course, it was Barnes initiative.

Says Jason Pye in regards to Billy Bearden's statements of warped politics and doing things the Chicago way by barnes and the King Rat Crew.

Don't believe us Flaggers cuz "we're SCUM of the Earth?" OK who said this:

"Senators' employers were called. Spouses' employers were called. Clients were contacted. Judges leaned on lawyer Senators. Judgeships are being dangled. Projects were promised. And bills were bought and sold.

Nobody has ever seen anything like it."

This was said on
Tuesday, January 30, 2001
by Senate Republican Leader Eric Johnson.

Here's a laugher!
January 30, 2001 - 10:42 a.m. ET
(Governor Roy Barnes speaking) “I’ve spoken with many of you in the last few days, and told each of you to do what you think is right, and in the best interest of Georgia. There are some among you who do not like the process that brings us here today. I think I can defend that process, but it's really immaterial at this point. If you dislike the process, take it out to on me. I'm fair game.” & “The greatest reason to be for the flag change is not because we avoid boycotts, it's not because we avoid any type of economic harm. The greatest reason to be for this flag is because it unites all of our people.”

January 31st, 2001
African-American leaders say the new flag will stave off a threatened economic boycott of the state.

"I'm glad that this matter's put behind us," Gov Roy Barnes said.

What a difference a day makes...

Jason Pye says "Georgia had been trending Republican for sometime. The flag had nothing to do with any political shift."

According to Bobby Kahn, Barnes' chief of staff
and an old-time political hand in Georgia, there was an obvious political reason for the defeat -- the
Confederate flag. In an e-mail, Roy Barnes wrote that "you will see that the dominant factor in my
defeat in 2002 was anger over my actions in changing the Georgia flag to reduce the size of the
Confederate battle emblem. I knew from my travels around the state that there was a lot of anger over
the change -- I had believed, or at least hoped, I could overcome the anger, but I couldn't." Voter turnout among Georgians in 2002 was unexpectedly high, much higher than in the 1998 race.

Once upon a time, there was a political race. It pitted longtime incumbent demo Nathan Dean against newcomer hopeful James Garner.

Garner ran as the repub. NOT A SINGLE PENNY nor moment of time was given to help Mr Garner by the repoobs.

Nearing the long hard fought campaign, with less than 2 weeks to go, a news story broke from Rockmart - Dean's hometown. Bigtime Atlanta news media came out to cover this horrendous tragedy of Biblical proportions:

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.asp?storyid=23420
Reported By: Valerie Hoff
Web Editor: Manav Tanneeru
Last Modified: 10/29/2002 7:25:28 AM
The hotly contested race for Georgia's State Senate District 31 between Nathan Dean and James Garner in Polk County is heating up and some supporters are getting burned, literally.

Police said someone torched a Rockmart, Ga., man's yard and fired several shots into his house because of some campaign signs.

Dean is the incumbent Democrat and, according to Polk County police, his
detractors have gone too far.

Homeowner Marty Estes' yard contains 66 Dean campaign signs. It started with
four, but someone did not like them. "They tore up three wrapped around my
mailbox," Estes said.

The next week someone threw a rock wrapped in a campaign sign through his
window. He put up more signs.

Two men then torched his lawn early Sunday morning. They also fired shots
into the garage and living room, which is now peppered with pellet holes.

"If I could have stood up out of my recliner when he shot it, it would have
took my head off when he shot the shotgun," Estes said.

Estes is grateful he was not home and that he had set up an infrared video
camera before leaving.

Police are viewing the tape and looking for two men shown lighting the
blaze.

"This is a very serious crime someone is committing," Rockmart Police Chief
Larry Chubb said.

While police are calling it the worst incident, there have bene others
involving Dean campaign signs.

Estes said he believed the culprits were still angry about last year's state
flag fight and Dean's vote in favor of replacing Georgia's old
Confederate-style flag with a new one.

"No matter what anyone else says, ain't no man to make a better senator than
Nathan Dean," Estes said. "I liked the old flag myself, but Dean is a good
man."

Neither candidate had much to say about the controversy, preferring to leave it in the hands of the authorities.

Police are asking anyone with information about the incident to call the
Rockmart Police Department at (770) 684-5454, ext. 105"

This story of 10/29 served the incumbent senator well. It not only secured him a last second sympathy vote and media exposure, but it bought him the much needed 251 votes to put him over the top. Knowingly or not, WXIA helped Senator Dean in this FARCE!!!

Instead of being the VICTIM of a politically motivated ATTACK, it would very much appear that the crime was, while politically motivated, a shoddily planned effort to gain a sympathy vote for the current senator and create hatred for his opponent Mr Garner.

While the effort initially worked (the media played up the pro Dean/Anti Garner sentiment) it fell apart the same day it occured because of the tape they made of the acts. The home owner Marty Estes torched his OWN signs and SHOT his own house. His brother Marlon, also his accomplice in this stupidity (and resident of Aragon), helped with the planning and execution. It was only a few days later when the police moved in did one brother get mad for the other spilling the beans and a fight ensued - the FARCE was over - BUT TOO LATE FOR JAMES GARNER !

Here are their arrest records from the Polk County records from November 2nd 2002.

Marty Jerome Estes, 38, of 65 Braswell Road, Rockmart, GA, was arrested and charged with aggravated assault, possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime, and criminal damage to property.

Marlon Tyrone Estes, 34, of 25 Oak Street, Aragon, GA, was arrested and charged with simple battery.

The same media REFUSED to do a corrective followup story, nor did the Polk and Ga REPOOBS lift a finger with any investigations or help. They could have had a repub sitting in that seat all this time...

The REPOOBS are complicit in helping give Dean his term

About the flag we love and Mr Pye hates...

What is now commonly referred to as the "56 Flag" was created by a suggestion from Atlanta attorney John Sammons Bell, then-chairman of the State Democratic Party, attorney for the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia (ACCG), and later Judge on Georgia Court of Appeals. His desire was to "forever perpetuate the memory of the Confederate soldier who fought and died for his state.",because as a young boy, he attended reunions of the old Confederate Veterans with his Grandfather, and learned the Battleflag was a soldiers flag.

On July 1st, 1956, Georgia Senate Bill 98 took effect. SB98 was signed into law on February 13th, 1956 by then-Governor Marvin Griffin, and it called for a new design to the Georgia State Flag.

Waynesboro State Senator and former Confederate Colonel Herman H.Perry designed the flag it replaced in 1879, based on the 1st Flag of the Confederacy, AKA Stars and Bars. Similar to our current flag, it had 2 red stripes and 1 white stripe, and a field of blue down the left side, which was a Government flag.

By 1955 however, people like Representative Denmark Groover argued at the time that the old flag never had enough meaning for him when he was a boy and that the new flag “would replace those meaningless stripes with something that has deep meaning in the hearts of all true Southerners"

Others like Senator Jefferson Davis of Cartersville also argued that the state should be entitled to adopt the new flag, because “Georgia suffered more than any other state in the Civil War and endured a scorched earth policy from the mountains of Tennessee to the sea.” SB98 was discussed and passed with little fanfare, and became law on July 1st, 1956.

It is a fact that under the 1879 Perry version flag, Jim Crow, lynching, segregation, and blatant discrimination were widely practiced and flourished in Georgia, as well as across America, but it is also fact that Georgia's greatest gains in Civil Rights came under the "56 Flag".

Under the 1956 Bell version flag, Georgia's schools were fully integrated, Black citizens were no longer lynched, they began enjoying full civil and equal rights in business, political, and social settings. Georgia gained 3 professional sports teams - Falcons, Braves, and Flames - hosted 2 Super bowls, held the 1996 Olympics, and set the pace for the New South.

In 1958, the United States Congress passed laws granting the same rights and recognition enjoyed by Union Veterans to men who served in the Confederate States Army and Navy. To this day Confederate Veterans are United States Veterans.

Public Law 85-425 adopted May 23, 1958 as H.R. 358

AN ACT

To increase the monthly rates of pension payable to widows and former widows of deceased veterans of the Spanish-American War, Civil War, Indian War, and Mexican War, and provide pensions to widows of veterans who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War...

CONFEDERATE FORCES VETERANS

Sec. 410. The Administrator shall pay to each person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such... if such forces had been service in the military or naval service of the United States.

Sec. 2. This act shall be effective from the first day of the second calendar month following its enactment.

Unfortunately, the 1956 Bell version flag had its enemies. Attempts at claiming the "56 flag" was changed to fight integration a long 2 years after the Brown vs. Board decision helped begin the BIG LIE that remains to this day. Although the historical facts are out there that plainly refutes this, truth means little for those with agendas.

Concerning those who claim that the flag was "… designed as a last desperate grasp of defiance against integration." Judge John Sammons Bell said, "Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth … every bit of it is untrue." He further stated, "Anybody who says anything to the contrary is wrong or perpetuating a willful lie."

Also during 1956, several newspaper accounts of the proposed change in the GEORGIA FLAG were published. In none of the articles was there any hint that the flag change was for any reason other than that stated by the gentlemen who proposed the change.

Former Governor Ernest Vandiver said

"I can assure you that there was no discussion of segregation or of the U.S. Supreme Court. All that was discussed was the coming centennial of the Civil War and this flag was meant to be a memorial to the bravery, fortitude and courage of the men who fought and died on the battlefield for the Confederacy. More Americans died in that war than any other war in the history of America, before or since."

In April 1992, the Atlanta Journal Constitution conducted a poll of 43,000 people, and their results were that 75% of citizens wished the "56 Flag" remain as is. Then on July 5th, 1992, the Atlanta Journal Constitution released the results of their own investigation into the flag change of 1956:

"There is little written record of the 1956 Legislature and no audio record. News stories about the change were few. In none of our research did we find any record of a stated connection between changing the flag and opposition to desegregation rulings."

In a May 29th, 1992 article from the New York Times relating to former Georgia Governer Zell Miller’s failed attempt to change the flag, House Speaker Thomas Murphy from rural Haralson County said he had always promised "my folks" that he would not vote to change the flag. "I personally don't see anything wrong with the flag we have," Mr. Murphy said.

On March 9, 1993, Denmark Groover took to the floor of the Georgia House to challenge then Gov. Miller’s proposal to change the 1956 flag. He admitted the obvious that segregation was a heated topic in 1956 and added,

“But those who now say that the legislature was obsessed with the matter of segregation to the exclusion of all other matters know not of what they speak…”

[Groover's March 9, 1993 remarks to the GA House are attached as Exhibit A to his 1994 deposition ]

Denmark Groover listed numerous appropriations made to fund historical markers and the Stone Mountain memorial in preparation for the tourism expected to accompany the 1961 Centennial Observances for the War Between the States:

· 1952 -- HR 250-9286 (pp 1250,1331,1689,1815,1828) To Propose and urge the creation of a Confederate Memorial Park at Stone Mountain. Adopted 11Feb.1952

· 1953 -- HB 160 (pp 12,131,134,171,374,381) To provide pensions for widows of Confederate Veterans Adopted 4 FEB. 1953

· 1953 -- SR 65 (pp 1251,1260,1481,1491,1689) The Confederate Veterans' Home property was given to the Georgia military department Adopted 1Dec.1953

· 1955 -- HR 35 (pp114,134,759) A resolution urging the Governor to purchase Stone Mountain because, "the incomplete and unsightly condition of the Stone Mountain Memorial has long weighed upon the pride and civic conscience of all Georgians." and the acquisition of Stone Mountain by the State would insure, "a lasting Memorial." Adopted 18Jan.1955

· 1955 -- HR 48 (pp155,200) Recommended the placing of a bust of General "Stonewall" Jackson in the Hall of Fame in New York City. Project was begun by the UDC and had the, "whole hearted endorsement," by the State. Adopted 20Jan.1955

· 1955 -- HR 145 (pp513,680,690,759) A resolution designating December 9th of each year as "Uncle Remus Day" Adopted 15Feb.1955

· 1955 -- HR 195 (p800) A resolution honoring 'Miss Anne Collins as, "Miss Deep South of 1954" Adopted 16Feb. 1955

· 1955 -- HB 14 (pp32,37,51,81,82) A bill to establish the Georgia State War Veterans' Home Adopted 7June1955

· 1955 -- HR 22 (p90) "A resolution naming the new bridge across the Wilmington river "Memorial Bridge" in honor of deceased veterans." Adopted 17June1955

· 1956 -- SR 30 (pp 449,468,1135,1140,1378) a resolution creating the "All-south Centennial Committee of Georgia" Adopted 17Feb.1956

· 1956 -- SR 48 (pp1068,1174) A resolution to preserve the Confederate Flags at the Capitol. Adopted 15Feb1956

· 1956 -- HB 188 (pp 236,306,309,431) A bill to abolish the State Division of Confederate Pensions and Records. It was amended to put all records with reference to, "the glorious men of the Confederacy," under control of the Department of Archival History. Adopted 26Jan.1956

· 1956 -- HB 241 (pp 297,581,587) A bill to dispose of the Confederate Soldiers' Home and to provide for the care of widows now living there. Adopted 2Feb.1956

· 1956 -- SB 98 (pp 598,602,710,719,856) This is the bill that created the wonderful 1956 State Flag. Adopted9Feb.1956

· 1957 -- HR 217 (p1027) A resolution to commend the Confederate Veterans' Sons (SCV) for their efforts to preserve our glorious heritage. Adopted 20Feb.1957

· 1957 -- HB 610 (pp 876,1036) A bill to increase the amount of pension given to widows of Confederate Veterans Adopted 19Feb.1957

· 1957 -- HR 234 (pp1100,1179) A resolution to commend the formation of the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial Association and encourage them (it) to finish the monument. Adopted 22Feb.1957

Numerous State funded Historical Markers were placed around Georgia in the following years:
1953-40, 1954-249, 1955-380, 1956-125, 1957-341, 1958-285, 1959-238, 1960-42, 1961-14, 1962-33, 1963-22, 1964-18, 1965-7 .

That's a total of 1,794 markers placed between 1953 and 1965. Of those, 1,373 were placed between 1953 and 1959. You might reasonably conclude that history and memorials were "on our minds" during those years.

The upcoming centennial of the war was on the minds of many Americans. In 1957, the U.S. Congress issued a joint resolution creating the Civil War Centennial Commission to "coordinate the nationwide observances." Georgia officials expected a lot of war-related tourism during the observances, so the vast majority of the above historical markers are related to the War for Southern Independence. These markers, the Stone Mountain memorial and the 1956 flag were all efforts to memorialize Georgia's veterans, Georgia's people and to present southern pride to all visitors.

Denmark Groover went on to say:

“To now conclude that the flag was adopted primarily as a symbol of segregation is justified only in the minds of those who, for their own purposes, would teach one segment of our population to hate another because of the faults of their ancestors. “

On Thursday, September 26th, 1996, during the annual Carter Town Hall Meeting at Emory University, Former Georgia Governor, Former United States President and Nobel Prize winner Jimmy Carter stated;

“ We should take the attitude that this (1956) flag is not racist in nature,

and the fact that the flag does play a major role in Southern history

is a legitimate historic recognition”

But the lies grew and multiplied. Another bit of untruth was that somehow the flag was "Bad for Business", and although the previously mentioned sports franchises and events came here under the "56 Flag", businesses like Home Depot were created here, Coca-Cola thrived and truly went global. Hartsfield Airport became the biggest in the world and 3 Interstates were built. Foreign companies built numerous plants here, and the economy was booming. The "56 Flag" was seen in movies like Smokey and the Bandit, and on TV shows like Matlock. Regardless, truth was ignored and facts tossed out the window.

In 1994, James Andrew Coleman filed a Federal Lawsuit against then Governor Zell Miller over the 56 Flag. Mr Coleman lost the suit and the flag remained, but once again Denmark Groover stood up to the plate, and in his deposition under oath he stated

" I have no personal knowledge which would dispute the purely historical motives which were expressed then and since by the sponsors and others involved with the legislation when it was introduced in the Senate. While I cannot say that the Supreme Court's rulings regarding desegregation played absolutely no role in my decision to support the bill in the House, I can say that segregationist sentiment was not the overriding or even a significant factor in my vote concerning the new flag, or, based on personal observation and knowledge, in its ultimate adoption by the House....”

It all finally came to a head in January 2001, when Ex-Governor Roy Barnes Blitzkrieged the legislature with threats, lies, and intimidation. Having ran on a campaign not to touch the flag, and just finished an interview on CNN in October 2000, stating the flag was not an issue, his flag change happened so fast not even most legislators knew what was happening. Those who voted with him received extra money for their campaigns and districts, those who refused were stripped of funding, or even in the case of Bowdon's Jack West, had his district removed thru redistricting for voting against the change.

Barnes told the media that Georgians will forget in 3 months, but Georgians are not as stupid as politicians think they are and voted him and his Democratic party out of power for the first time in 132 years. Roy Barnes was also dropped as a Vice Presidential Candidate option from the 2004 National Democratic Ticket. Under the Barnes Rag, our school children were dropped from 49th to 50th in education rankings, and the economy tanked. Barnes even lied about securing the infamous Mercedes Benz plant.

See, here is the problem. I believe the Confederacy had no legitimate right to exist because it practiced slavery and defended so devoutly.

Because of that, I don't want that on the flag that represents my state, which is why I've burned that flag out of protest.

I don't care what Eric Johnson says. He is a friend of mine, but we disagree on several things. He is wrong here.

The flag has been changed, people like you that continue to live in 1861 need to move on.

I have nothing else to add. Please stop spamming my blog.

I can't believe we're still talking about this stupid flag. If you've done any serious reading on the subject of the 1956 flag, done any examination of the legislative issues of the time or lived anywhere near the time of the change, you would know, without a hint of doubt, that the 1956 Georgia state flag was in response to the Brown decision of 1954.

Everyone knows how offensive that flag is to certain segments of the population and yet they still embrace it. I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd take off their hoods and admit why.