Libertarian Party Presidential Debate
[The debate begins at 7pm (9pm EST) and will be broadcast on C-SPAN with Jim Pinkerton moderating. The participants had to receive 56 tokens in order to participate in the debate.
The debate participants are:
- Bob Barr
- Mike Gravel
- Mike Jingozian
- Steve Kubby
- George Phillies
- Wayne Allyn Root
- Mary Ruwart
I'll be updating throughout the debate.
[6:59pm] The debate will be getting underway shortly. I'm sitting on Bloggers Row in between Dave Weigel from Reason and Stephen Littau from The Liberty Papers.
[7:03pm] Jim Pinkerton is getting a lot boos as his resume is being read off to the delegates. However, he received warm welcome to the stage.
[7:05pm] Barr's reception was mixed. Ruwart received the strongest sign of support.
[7:09pm] Barr gets the first question, which is, "What philosopher best represents your views?" Barr says, "Ayn Rand."
[7:12pm] Barr: "Inside this heart beats the heart of a Libertarian."
[7:13pm] Gravel: "The Libertarian Party has what it takes to fix the problems in this country."
[7:13pm] Gravel says that the Libetarian Party represents: "Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!"
[7:15pm] Phillies is going through how he has helped build the LP over the last few years. Phillies issues are ending the war in Iraq, restoring fiscal responsibility and restoring civil liberties. He called the conservatism a "philosophy of bigotry."
[7:22pm] Root says he is the best candidate for the party and a “citizen politician” and he adds that he would be the first Jewish-American to receive a party nomination.
[7:24pm] Root also promises to help build party by helping to win every local election possible.
[7:26pm] Phillies said one of his influences was Barry Goldwater. He adds that if Goldwater were alive today he would be cheering the LP on with a new title to his book, Conscience of a Libertarian.
[7:27pm] Ruwart says her main influence was Ayn Rand.
[7:28pm] Steve Kubby cites David Nolan as his biggest influence. Nolan is the founder of the LP.
[7:29pm] Root says Yogi Berra as his influence. Root reminds me of a white Obama.
[7:31pm] Gravel calls for withdrawal from Iraq and an end to imperialism.
[7:32pm] Phillies says the war in Iraq ended years ago and that it is time to bring the troops home.
[7:33pm] Phillies: “End the war, end foreign aid…”
[7:33pm] Jingozian takes the first shot at Obama.
[7:34pm] Ruwart says the best way to remain peaceful with other nations is through trade.
[7:35pm] Kubby says, “The United States has no enemies in this world.”
[7:37pm] Barr hits George Bush for nation-building and says we need to bring the troops home, not just from Iraq but from other stations around the world and put the money back in the hands of the taxpayers.
[7:40pm] Ruwart says that bring the troops home would cut the cost of oil.
[7:43pm] Kubby told the crowd about his car that runs on vegetable oil.
[7:44pm] Root says that we need to explore oil reserves in the US by drilling in ANWR and off the coast of Florida and encourage more nuclear energy.
[7:45pm] Barr says to get government out of energy and get business back in.
[7:45pm] Gravel: “We can get off gasoline in five years.”
[7:48pm] Kubby says that he debates with his Green friend over the environment and often is at odds with them because they want the government to monitor pollution. He said it was like the fox guarding the hen house.
[7:50pm] Root says the second largest polluter, next to the US government, is Al Gore.
[7:51pm] Barr took a shot at McCain’s support of the Kyoto Protocol. He calls the idea, “absolutely crazy.”
[7:55pm] Question to the candidate: "How would you deal witht he PATRIOT Act and the REAL ID?"
[7:56pm] Ruwart said that she would work to have them both repealed.
[7:57pm] Kubby took a shot at Barr over the PATRIOT Act. When Barr reluctantly voted for the PATRIOT Act in Congress.
[7:57pm] Root said that the PATRIOT Act and REAL ID Act were two issues that drove him to become a Libertarian.
[7:59pm] Root says that we should privatize the war on terror.
[8:00pm] Barr says that the politics of fear drove the PATRIOT Act. Barr says that he would drive a stake in the heart of the PATRIOT Act, among other things. He added that the REAL ID Act has no place in public policy.
[8:01pm] Gravel just brought up the National Initiative for Democracy. This is a drive turn the US into a direct democracy, or rule of the mob.
[8:02pm] Jingozian sarcastically asks, “How can you not like the PATRIOT Act?”
[8:04pm] Kubby says that the current immigration policy in the US is something he would expect from the KKK.
[8:05pm] Root says that the border should be secured and a pathway should be provided to immigrants.
[8:06pm] Barr says that there is no immigration policy. He says that immigrants should come through a checkpoint to ensure they don’t pose a health or security threat.
[8:07pm] Gravel: “Freedom means no barriers.” He also brief promoted the FairTax.
[8:09pm] Phillies: “As long as you have a welfare system, you can’t have open borders. You’ll go broke.”
[8:09pm] Jingozian: “You can’t have open borders in a welfare state.”
[8:10pm] He adds that if he’d be in jail if he used the same accounting practices in his business that the US government uses.
[8:11pm] Ruwart has her supporters and they are cheering her on, but I don’t believe she is having much of an impact in the debate.
[8:12pm] Root: “The war on drugs is a failure.”
[8:12pm] He adds that we need to end the international war on drugs and legalize marijuana for all Americans.
[8:13pm] Barr: “Clearly the drug war has not worked.”
[8:13pm] Barr advocates federalism on the drug issue.
[8:14pm] Gravel says that the drug issue is a public health issue.
[8:15pm] Phillies: “The war on drugs is a total failure,” adding that “we’re too broke to afford [the war on drugs].
[8:18pm] Kubby, a marijuana activist, said he was buzzed because he was sitting on the stage with a former Congressman and Senator, as well as Libertarian activists, discussing and agreeing that the war on drugs is a failure.
[8:20pm] Barr says that California judge Jim Gray would be his first nominee to the Supreme Court.
[8:22pm] Gravel calls for term limits for all branches of government, including Supreme Court.
[8:26pm] Did Kubby just say, "Madison v. Mayberry"?
[8:26pm] Root takes a line from Giuliani by saying that school choice is the civil rights issue of the 21st century.
[8:27pm] Gravel gets asked a question about healthcare and the FDA.
[8:29pm] Gravel completely side-stepped the question.
[8:29pm] Phillies is laying out some very good policy proposals on healthcare, including opening up interstate commerce and taking better care of veterans.
[8:30pm] Jingozian says that the drug and medical industry need to be deregulated in order to bring healthcare cost down.
[8:33pm] Kubby cites the FDA as the problem with healthcare.
[8:34pm] Root needs to lay off the Red Bull.
[8:34pm] Root hits on several issues to bring down healthcare costs, including tort reform.
[8:35pm] Barr says that the FDA and government are responsible for fifty percent of healthcare costs.
[8:35pm] We're moving on to gay marriage.
[8:36pm] Phillies says that he is proud to be from Massachusetts. He adds that he'll "ask Congress to repeal the bigoted Defense of Marriage Act." That comment was a shot a Barr.
[8:37pm] Ruwart also sets her sites on DoMA. She said that it "would have to go."
[8:39pm] Root says that it marriage is none of the government's business.
[8:40pm] Barr is renouncing the Defense of Marriage Act. He said that as president he would work to repeal his own legislation.
[8:41pm] Cal, I showed your comment to Dave Weigel from Reason. See his column on Ruwart and 9/11.
[8:43pm] Ruwart wants the Ron Paul vote. She also says that it would be great to have a woman run as the party's nominee for president.
[8:44pm] Kubby says that there have been too many conservative nominees in the past. He says that there needs to be a Ron Paul-type candidate...which is perplexing considering that Paul ran to the far-right on most issues.
[8:45pm] Root says that he would appeal to small-business owners, school choice activists and online poker fans.
[8:46pm] Barr: "We need someone who can reach the American people in a language they can understand."
[8:47pm] Barr: "We are on the cusp of a Libertarian era and I want to help seize it."
[8:48pm] Phillies promises to continue to build the party.
[8:49pm] Pinkerton is moving onto rapid fire questions.
[8:50pm] Kubby says real freedom on guns wouldn't come from Congress, but it would come from Smith & Wesson.
[8:51pm] Barr says that the Second Amendment is the first amendment. He voiced support for the Supreme Court overturning the DC gun ban.
[8:52pm] We are moving on to closing statements. Barr goes first.
[8:54pm] Barr says that fear should not play a part in public policy.
[8:55pm] Phillies is touting his campaign as most organized and that he is the candidate with the most clear Libertarian credentials .
[8:56pm] Ruwart says that Libertarian beliefs are becoming mainstream.
[8:58pm] Root says that the LP needs energy and passion. Root said his hero is Winston Churchill and he'll never stop fighting. I thought we were going to have a Howard Dean moment there.
[8:59pm] We're done. Time to head over and catch candidate reaction. You pick the winners.
Comments
I wonder if this debate will be better than the Republican or Democrat debates...
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:08 PM
Jim Pinkerton sucks
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:12 PM
Opening statements:
Barr, me'eh
Gravel, wrong party
Ruwart, good speaker, but a kook
Kubby, single issue candidate
Root, used car salesman
Who are the other two again?
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:26 PM
Kubby's blatant pandering would be at home in either major party.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:30 PM
Gravel has been a WTF for me since he switched parties. I guess welcome aboard.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 09:35 PM
Kubby has no business being president. Fortunately, he has no chance of winning the presidency; let alone the LP nomination.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:41 PM
Ruwart's blatantly wrong about the subsidization of alternative fuels. Does she know about the ethanol, solar, and wind subsidies and tax credits?
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:42 PM
Kubby sounds like a hippy.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 09:44 PM
Wayne Allen Root is a dumbass.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 09:45 PM
Kubby sounds like a hippy... A pot smoking, my-car-runs-on-cooking-oil hippy.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 09:45 PM
Harry,
Exactly. Root's a fraud.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:47 PM
Kevin,
He seems kind of like he just wants the personal fame.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 09:49 PM
Ruwart's theories sound great...expect for that place called reality.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:50 PM
Root, you hate Gore, we get it.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 09:51 PM
Liked Phillies's answer about science.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:56 PM
Every time Mary talks I flip the channel. She just tried to get a huge applause for herself and nobody clapped!
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 09:57 PM
Kubby and Ruwart are playing good cop, bad cop against Barr; which is a smart political strategy. Kubby is about as likely as I am of getting the nomination, so he's doing Ruwart's dirty work.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 09:58 PM
Phillies is running for Congress apparently.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:03 PM
I'm afraid that Barr, even with his supposed lack of charisma, is the only candidate that can debate in the national race and not embarrass the party.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 10:04 PM
Kubby says we're not focusing on the bad guys, but I thought he said America had no enemies.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:05 PM
Did George Phillies just forget what he is running for?
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 10:06 PM
Wow, Barr's the only one with an actual sane immigration policy, in any party....
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:08 PM
Jingozian is another one who can't quite answer questions.
Ruwart: "Vote me and there will be a chicken in every pot, celestial choirs will sing, and the heavens will burst open in our perfect utopian society."
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:12 PM
I'm interested to see how the crowd would react if Gravel is asked about his plan for universal health care.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 10:13 PM
Gravel: "Pot's good". He's trying to be a walking parody of Libertarians.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:15 PM
This is hard to watch. If the Libertarians want to to be taken seriously in November (and beyond), the nominee has to be Barr. There is no other choice.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:16 PM
Did Jingozian just say he has been arguing for the prohibition of weed for a long time?
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:17 PM
Kevin,
Coming into this, who were the front runners? They all kind of blow except Barr. Kubby actually sounds OK. Mary is a complete fool.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:20 PM
Gravel also isn't familiar with the concept of separation of powers.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:22 PM
Everybody on the stage (except Barr and Gravel) makes a fool of himself and especially herself by saying lines they expect an applause on and not getting anything.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:23 PM
I would say the battle was between Barr, Root, and Ruwart.
My money's on Ruwart.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:24 PM
So every candidate wants to appoint Libertarians to judgeships. Am I the only one who has a problem with them outright proposing to nominate partisan judges to the courts?
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:25 PM
My money's on Ruwart.
So your money is on the LP being a joke for another 4 years?
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:27 PM
Gravel's new "Libertarian" slogan: "From his according to his means, to each according to his needs."
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:29 PM
Im outa here... Barr could get my vote, nobody else will.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 24, 2008 10:31 PM
Harry,
Knowing the LP, absolutely. That's why I'm not a member of the LP, I take my politics seriously.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:31 PM
I think Ruwart is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. I could be wrong about that though.
Posted by: Cal | May 24, 2008 10:35 PM
Cal,
Ruwart signed the Losertarians for Justice Troofer pledge, along with 10 other candidates out of the 14 running. Only Barr, Phillis, and Root told the Troofers to fuck off.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:42 PM
Gravel: "I don't think I'm all that smart..." Truer words have never been spoken.
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 10:53 PM
Final grades:
Barr: A
Gravel: F
Phillies: C+
Jingozian: F
Ruwart: B+
Kubby: B
Root: D
Moderator: B, started out bad, got better
Posted by: Kevin | May 24, 2008 11:12 PM
To the previous post about Kubby doing Ruwart's dirty work--w/out a doubt it was pretty obvious.
After quite some time we finally realized who Phillies reminded us of--Pat from 90's era SNL.
Gravel is a total nutjob.
Ruwart has that Harry Browne kind of ideological purity and hope that has gotten us less than .5% for the last 3 election cycles.
It's obvious that we are a party divided. But as I realized years ago, the hardcores need us moderates; however, we also need them to be a viable party. They will never come together behind Barr. And that's a shame.
I think Root will be the compromise candidate and I think that I could be okay w/ that.
Posted by: marshall | May 24, 2008 11:44 PM
And that is why the party will not be successful, refusal to select a candidate the the everyday American is willing to vote for. Barr has proven he is that candidate.
Posted by: Harry Johnson | May 25, 2008 12:11 AM
You're right Harry, it's a damn shame. But what's the alternative? The Ron Paul episode has shown that the GOP is not open to the Libertarian message and the Dems might as well change their name to the Democratic-Socialist Party.
Constitution Party? 90% right in their platform but way too much God. The Reform party is basically defunct and the Greens are worse than the Dems.
Independent? You better have tens of millions of $ and thousands of people working for ballot access. No, the LP is the best and really the only vehicle. If Barr doesn't get it--it will be another weak showing. But there's always 2012. And that's the thing w/ Libertarians--we're the eternal optimists!
Posted by: Marshall | May 25, 2008 12:22 AM
Marshall,
I would argue that much of that was the fault of the messenger as much as the party. The Paul newsletters, pandering to Twoofers, the conspiracy mongering, and the naive foreign policy tend to turn off most people.
Posted by: Kevin | May 25, 2008 12:27 AM
Kevin,
I'll give you the newsletters. Pandering to the "twoofers"--simply not the case. Conspiracy mongering and the naive foreign policy? Please state your case.
As an aside, has anyone ever dealt w/ a bat infestation? I've killed three tonight and five in the last two days. I'm starting to get in the H.S. Thompson mode--the fuckers are closing in!!! Any advice would be much appreciated.
Posted by: marshall | May 25, 2008 12:39 AM
marshall,
First about the bats, I find that a shotgun would work just fine :).
Now about Paul. Well, there's the video with the Students for 9/11 Twoof where he calls for another investigation. Plus, there are the Twoofers all over the campaign who Paul refused to repudiate such as Alex Jones.
As for the conspiracy mongering, well, Paul's come out against the "North American Union", even though there is no such thing and no such plan to create one.
Finally, the naive foreign policy, Ron Paul seems to believe that if we withdraw from the world, that everything will be alright, that's not the case.
Posted by: Kevin | May 25, 2008 01:04 AM
Kevin,
I'm starting to give the shotgun route some serious thought. I would definetly have to dust off my 4-10 as my girlfriend would not appreciate any 12 gauge holes in her walls. So far a broom has done the trick.
W/ the RP thing, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I remember when I was young and had the whole world figured out--it was a good feeling.
But as you get older you start to see things in a slightly different light.
I've seen the video you're referring to--it does not prove your point.
And the North American Union is no conspiracy. It is quite real and out there for all of us to see. Simpy google SPP or Security and Prosperity Partnership. Also, call or write any number of Texas towns or county governments and get their take on it. I know it seems "cool" to be the guy going against the grain especially when it seems like the cool position would be to agree with it. Like the guy in the youtube debate on CNN who asked that question to Dr. Paul--his youthful arrogance and condescention was pretty obvious--it was like, oh yeah, we get it...you're "ahead of the curve" and you've got it all figured out...good for you guy.
The foreign policy is a whole other thing. For you to think that Dr. Paul's foreign policy is naive means that you're really not ready to have a serious talk about the matter. But a few quick points--no matter what you believe about radical musilim terrorists or what you believe regarding proper foreign policy--the unfortunate truth is that we're too broke to really do anything about it anyway. We're living off of borrowed time on a false, fiat currency. And it will catch up to us. Gas prices for starters. OPEC is based on U.S. dollars. Things will become horrific. When our economy starts to shut down, government revenues will drop. You might not be able to appreciate this as you're either living off of your parents or my tax dollars but $10/gallon will make things very difficult. Major services of the Federal and State governments will start shutting down as we will see more bridges collapse while taxes go up and the politicians tell us that the solution is if only we had "more" government to solve our problems. We're basically dead in the water already...but to have just a chance, just a slight chance, we will have to freeze the welfare state and drasically reduce our defense spending. We could start by pulling out of the 130 countries that we currently have troops in. You can call is surrender if you want. Really we're past all that. If this is a chess game, we're in end-game, and we're basically in survival mode.
P.S.--Dr. Paul did repudiate the truthers on the Glen Beck show.
Posted by: marshall | May 25, 2008 01:49 AM