Romney called 'Secular Humanism' a religion, then called it wrong while giving a speech asking for religious tolerance. Was the irony missed by him? This is what happens when you try to mix religion and logic.

In essence, Romney declared that you have to be religious to be an American. I have no doubt that there are more 'non-religious' people in this country than there are Mormons.
His attempt at trying to 'out bigot' Huckabee is shameful.
He is obviously pandering to a group that considers his church a cult. Now Christians know how the Jews feel. It was okay for Christians to add to the Old Testament, but when the Mormons try to add to the Christian' New Testament, that's considered blasphemy. Go figure.

Thomas Jefferson's Declaration may invoke a "Creator," but, as he went on to show in the battle over the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom, he and most of his peers did not believe in a god who intervened in human affairs or in a god who had sent a son for a human sacrifice.

"freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom."
Any stooge can think of an example where freedom exists without religion—and even more easily of an instance where religion exists without (or in negation of) freedom.

I, for one, do not need to be lectured by such pious individuals on the founding of our country, nor do I need to be told that because I do not consider myself 'religious' somehow that makes me less of an American. This is ignorance on a grand scale.

Just don't get me started on Huckabee!

Joe,

This post was for you. I figured you'd chime in.

Joe,
Jefferson offered confusing statements on religion throughout his life. Some folks call him a deist, but at various points he expressed in his writings a belief that God did intervene in human affairs. You are right, however, he did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

Although I am not a Romney or Huckabee fan, I think that one of the important points that they make -- rather badly, I agree -- is that the United States was founded by people whose culture, thought, laws, and morality emerged from a Christian culture and worldview.

This does not "establish" Christianity as THE religion of the United States. In my opinion, however (which does not mean much), the further American societies have moved away from basic Christian concepts in their public life, the shakier the republic has gotten. I do not think that a utilitarian ethic can be used to successfully defend life, liberty, and property. Sorry if this is a bit confusing....

(The issue seems to me to be whether or not government should play a role in promoting Christian values. Most Republicans believe it should. I --and most libertarians-- believe that it should not.)

I agree with you Rick. Valuing life, liberty and property are things that require a moral compass. For the Christian, that moral compass is the Bible.

There are moral people out there that don't have that compass, but they lack a basis for their morality. Over time, a morality with no basis is compromised to the point where anything goes. The only thing that matters is me. Once the majority gets to that point, the only liberty that they’ll defend is their own. It is at that point that liberty will cease to exist for all of us.

"Jefferson offered confusing statements on religion throughout his life. Some folks call him a deist, but at various points he expressed in his writings a belief that God did intervene in human affairs. You are right, however, he did not believe in the divinity of Christ."

One only has to look to Jefferson's obelisk to see what he declared as his three most important achievements in his life. One of which was the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom. In that Statue he stated,...

"That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

This was drafted only three years after the 'Declaration of Independence'. It is clear that Jefferson believed in 'a wall of separation' between church and state (look to his letter to the Baptists Association in Danbury). And to that I say, 'Build Up that Wall'.

"...the United States was founded by people whose culture, thought, laws, and morality emerged from a Christian culture and worldview.",

I argue, whether one was a Deist, Christian or otherwise, the purpose of the US Government was to be neutral in respect to religion. The very person Romney mentions, John Adams, approved the 'Treaty of Tripoli' which clearly states that,
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;"
This Treaty was unanimously ratified (a rare occurrence in that time) with no outcry or complaints. Does this not prove in a direct way that we were intended to be a secular nation?

"In my opinion, however ..., the further American societies have moved away from basic Christian concepts in their public life, the shakier the republic has gotten. I do not think that a utilitarian ethic can be used to successfully defend life, liberty, and property."

The ideals of Life, liberty and property can be argued for without believing Jesus is divine or in Christian ethics. Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution does it say Jesus or Christ, but merely the idea of a 'Creator' or 'Nature's God'. Another clear sign that the Founders wanted to keep this from being a 'Christian Nation', but one of inclusion.

Tell me one good deed that a Christian or religious person can do that a non-believer can not.
I do not believe people get their 'morals' from the Bible. I believe morals are innate and available to everyone and evolve through various societal outlets. People claiming to get their morals from the Bible are cherry-picking between